thomas law clerk, is that right? >> yes, he's currently being disbarred from california because of his participation in trying to overturn the election. one of the more extreme examples but a good one. the other one is john you who wrote the torture memos under john ingram. not all of these individuals go directly into the judiciary's, either way, they are preaching from the gospel that clarence thomas helped to write, and i'm sure that crystal clanton will be set along the same path when she graduates from this boot camp. >> this is clarence thomas's army. mark joseph stern, it's always great to talk to you. that's our show for this evening, now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell, good evening and welcome back, lawrence. >> mike manley is over there, right over there, and he's got the three presidents, and he is

trying to make his way here into the studio. he's got an hour to get here, apparently they are in a lockdown at the moment but he will eventually, we believe, get here. >> don't put him at the top. i was going to say, i can be your guest, if you need. if you need me to tap dance. >> we were hoping to get him earlier but he's going to get over here and tell us what went on in there. >> spilled the tea mike, i want to know. >> the name of this episode is, waiting for mike. >> a new play by lawrence o'donnell. carry on. >> thank you. a presidential campaign came to new york city tonight in fact, it's across the street from here. the single biggest fundraiser

of a presidential campaign took place tonight with three presidents on stage. biden, obama and clinton. the event shows the unity of the democratic party, not just the democratic party today but the democratic party of the last 30 years, as it was led by president bill clinton and then president barack obama and now president joe biden. a similar gathering on the republican side of the presidential campaign is impossible because republican party is not unified. the republican party has been shattered by donald trump. and so there will be no trump fundraising event or campaign event with the one living former republican president george bush, and none of the living former republican vice presidents will be appearing at trump rallies.

dan quayle is 77 years old, living in arizona and commands no following in the republican party, to cheney, is 83 years old, and is one of the leaders of republicans against trump, as is his daughter, liz cheney, who, yesterday, described what a second trump presidency could be like. >> it's important to recognize, for example, what it would mean to have a president who refused to abide by the rulings of our courts, and when, you know, you have a situation where the reason that our courts have the power that they do and that they have to have under our constitution is because the chief executive enforces their rulings, and all you have to do is listen to what donald trump says, look at the filings that his lawyers have made in the immunity case and others you

know the moment that the court rules in a way that he disagrees with, he will just refuse to abide by it. >> donald trump's own vice president, mike pence, has announced that he does not support donald trump for president. just imagine the political equivalent in the democratic party. just imagine if joe biden's former running mate, barack obama was opposing joe biden's reelection. it is inconceivable because the democratic party is fundamentally sane, and the republican party has been lost to trump madness, to the point that mike pence refusing to endorse donald trump is now considered perfectly normal in trump world. the unique ability of the democratic party to put three presidents on stage together in radio city music hall, the largest indoor theater in the world, with seats for 6013

people means that the sold-out event that the democratic party ran tonight means that the biden/harris campaign have the most powerful fundraising operation in the history of american politics. that sold-out event raised more than $25 million which is more than the trump campaign raised in the entire month of february. that's right, the biden/harris campaign, in two hours tonight, raised more money than the trump campaign raised for an entire month. and that means that in august, september and october, when the battleground states are flooded with television commercials for the campaigns, the biden/harris campaign will have a tremendous advantage. those television advertising campaigns are aimed at undecided voters and swing

voters. voters who could go either way on election day. it takes massive amounts of money in tv advertising, to reach those voters because those voters do not watch programs like this, they do not watch cable news. they generally do not read any newspaper articles about politics or government. those voters know as much about politics and government as i know about golf, and so, most of them had no idea how much joe biden has helped people of all ages with student debt, they don't know about 82-year- old karen engstrom, who had her student debt forgiven, she took

out to student loans, one for $30,000 and another for $45,000 and overtime, with interest, those loans grew to a total of $175,000. she said, quote, it was a burden, i couldn't think of it all the time. it was just there in the background. i thought it would be forgiven when i died. joe biden erased that debt for the 82-year-old woman. that's the kind of story that can be told in a 32nd tv commercial. the voters, who will be informed by the commercials in the last weeks of the campaign don't yet know that joe biden has capped the price of insulin for diabetes patients. the voters don't know about so many of the biden compass mints that can be easily summarized in 32nd commercials. but by the end of october, the biden/harris campaign outspending the trump campaign on tv advertising in the battleground states, many more voters will know about those biden accomplishments then they

know about them tonight. that's why fundraising is so important in this presidential campaign and donald trump is losing very, very bad rating, according to the new york times, the review of federal records, trump has spent $100 million of campaign money on legal fees for donald trump, averaging, quote, more than $90,000 a day in legal related costs for more than three years. none of it, paid for with his own money, instead, the former president has relied almost entirely on donations made in an attempt to fight the results of the 2020 election. today, the biden/harris campaign posted this new ad. >> with the president visiting eight swing states in 80 days, biden has crisscrossed the country ♪ ♪ visiting the

southwest, campaign stops half focus on reproductive rights, lowering healthcare and housing costs ♪ ♪ >> before tonight's fundraiser the three presidents recorded up podcast with post jason bateman, will arnett and sean hayes who became the first podcaster's in history to have three presidents as guests, at the same time. the biden/harris fundraising advantage today, allow the biden/harris campaign to open a

field office in lancaster, pennsylvania. it's the first time that there will be a democratic field office in lancaster for a presidential election. in 2020, donald trump joe biden in lancaster county 57.2% to 41.3%. if joe biden can just increase his vote, in lancaster county, he could increase his winning margin in pennsylvania which he won by 80,000 votes in 2020. the huge biden fundraising advantage allows the biden/harris campaign to build a campaign infrastructure advantage. the associated press reports, quote, just six months before the first early votes are cast in the general election between trump and biden, trump's republican party has little general election infrastructure to speak of. officials on the ground in top swing states are not panicking but the disparity with the widened campaign is stark. this month alone, biden open

100 new offices and added more than 350 new staffers in swing states from arizona to georgia to pennsylvania. that's in addition to the democratic president existing battleground state staff of 100 that was already in place. and the last presidential campaign with pennsylvania as a must win state, this program turned repeatedly for guidance to our pennsylvania campaign expert, the senior senator bob casey who is running for reelection this year. his republican opponent mccormick has endorsed trump, tonight, senator casey released this ad on what he calls, greed inflation. >> chicken prices 35% higher. toilet paper up 10%, profits increased 100 million, corporations raising prices five times faster than inflation, bob casey calls it greed inflation and he is fighting back. >> my plan gives the federal trade commission the power to

punish corporate price gouging, let's roll back the huge corporate tax breaks putting money in your pocket instead. that's why i approved this message. >> joining us now is senator casey, the longest-serving democratic senator in pennsylvania. he is running for u.s. senate in 2024. senator first of all great seeing the pennsylvania map behind you, that's the way you've guided us through this four years ago. what does it mean to the biden campaign, what does it mean to you to see the biden campaign opening a campaign office in lancaster? >> lawrence, i saw a good bit of that this week. i was all across the state. i was traveling across those northern tier counties, red counties, mccain county, warren county and erie and allegheny county where pittsburgh is and in erie, we opened an office there. and there's a lot of energy and intensity because i think people are ready now to be able

to the liver a message about how democrats have delivered. when i go to these counties i tend to list all the things we got done, and by name and by project, infrastructure projects, investments we made in families with the child tax credit and so many things we've done to lift up communities and families, but these offices and places like lancaster, and as you pointed out earlier, that's been a red county for a long time. even more so the counties behind me that i mentioned in the northern tier, and these are places where, i think we can cut into the margin by translating what has happened over the last couple of years, to lift up those counties and to lift up families but we've

got to have the resources to do it and it's going to be a challenge but we will get there. >> so for the biden campaign, to win the state, it does not mean they have to suddenly win lancaster county but the idea is if you can just get more votes there, the, biden already won pennsylvania, so if he can add to his vote count, that abstinence is likely winning margin? >> no question about it. and i'll tell you, no matter where you go, and the red counties that i was in this week, 5 to 6 of them in a row, they are counties where the former president was getting in the race against president biden maybe 74 or 75% of the vote but this question of lowering the cost to families, lowering costs for families, and talking about "greed- flation" and shrinkflation, people get it. they know that corporate america's profits were up five times the rate of inflation as we mentioned in the ad and they know they've been getting ripped off where corporate profits were going to the roof, right after these big corporations got a gross,

obscene corporate tax break in 2017 because trump and republicans rammed it through without a single democratic vote and they took the tax cut and gave shareholders, then jacked up the prices of food and household items, we've got to expose it, pass a price gouging bill and rollback the corporate tax cuts. the only way for us to make this argument of course, is to keep the ad on the air so i hope people can go online and help us pay for these ads. >> i know you can't get through a day of campaigning in pennsylvania without talking to republicans. it's one of those states where it's densely populated by both parties. in your conversations with republicans, are you finding a

liz cheney affect, nikki haley effect, where you can detect, there are republicans who have voted for trump in the past but simply will not vote for him this time, they have moved into the liz cheney or nikki haley camp? >> i get some of that sense, lawrence, it's often unspoken, it's not like they run up to you and declare their independence from moderate or the extreme right, in fact i had a unique experience, i won't say what county so as not to get them in trouble but to republican county commissioners came to an event for us, and the event was billed as a campaign event and they showed up, if at one point it was over and they were doing videos and they were going to stand in the video with me and i said, are you guys sure that you want to be in this video but they showed up at the event because they know that i've delivered for their county and they know that president biden has delivered. roads and bridges and infrastructure but also direct help to families.

>> do you have a prediction for the biden campaign in pennsylvania on election day? >> he's going to win and i'm going to win but it's going to be a long, tough road but we will both get there. i think in some ways when you are reporting on the presidents great, in new york, i have the opposite problem, it's the other guy that has the money advantage. >> senator bob casey, thank you very much for starting off our discussion tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. coming up, the new piece in the atlantic andrew wiseman writes, no good legal reason exists to delay donald trump's january 6th trial any further, andrew weissman joins us next. ♪ nothing is everything ♪ ( ♪♪)

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i think it's very important that the supreme court recognize that what he's doing is a delaying tactic, and that the american people, it cannot be the case that a president of the united states can attempt to overturn an election and seize power, and our justice system is incapable of holding a trial, of holding him to account before the next election. that cannot be the case. >> that was former vice chair of the january 6th select committee liz cheney last night. liz cheney expresses the same

frustrations about delaying trump's trial as our next guest andrew wiseman who along with ryan goodman has a new piece in the atlantic titled, the supreme court is shaming itself. it says, when a defendant seeks to postpone a trial into a point at which he can no longer be prosecuted, the justice department may request the trial be held before that deadline. if trump should win the election, he will become immune as president from criminal trial for at least four years, and perhaps forever by seeking dismissal of the federal case with prejudice or testing the efficacy of granting himself a pardon. the justice apartment can accordingly hold uphold the public interest in deterrence and accountability by seeking the prompt conviction of the leader of an insurrection. joining us now is andrew

wiseman, he's an msnbc legal analyst and co-author of the new york times best-selling book, the trump indictment, the historic charging documents with commentary. andrew, liz cheney certainly shares your view of this. what can the justice department do, given what we presume to be the schedule of the supreme court here? >> well, there's nothing we can do about the fact that the supreme court has been lollygagging, that it really has delayed when it would hear the case, so it's now hearing the case on the last day of this term, so that's april 25th. so that is set in stone but what it can do and what ryan and i tried to write about was what can be done at the oral argument to crest the conservative justices who i think are putting their thumb on the scale for a delay, and

to press trump's counsel on why there is no legal, legitimate grounds to delay a ruling in this case in other words, that the ruling on immunity should come forth with, and we spell out all the reasons. you lawrence, have heard me repeatedly talk about on the show how the public has a right for a speedy trial. here, we not only talk about that but we point out that donald trump's only interest here, the only issue in the supreme court is the one of immunity, it's not the trial date and on the issue of immunity, anyone who has claimed immunity has an interest in having that decided quickly. after all, what they are telling the court as they should not suffer a criminal case one day more because they are immune from that. so that means they would have every interest in that case

being decided quickly indeed, donald trump, as you recall, set in the trial court that the gag order was interfering with his ability to actually campaign for office, that's one more reason that he should have the court decide quickly. so what we are trying to do is arm the fair-minded justices, those who are looking at this dispassionately and we think there should be a group of people who fall into the category about why this case should be decided quickly because otherwise, as liz cheney is warning, this will essentially be de facto immunity for the former president. >> your suggestion and hope is that, in the actual presentation of the arguments, to the supreme court, that jack smith's side specifically asked for basically, as fast a ruling as possible. >> absolutely, they asked for that, and that they press the court to point out to them that

there is no legitimate grounds for a delay here. after all, remember the reason this is being heard now is, this is very much out of turn, when you have a claim with immunity, the court says, this is so urgent and important that we will decide this before the trial, not after the trial. the normal rule is all of these issues get decided after a trial takes place. so that's one more reason that they really should be pressing for a very quick decision because after all, if they delay the decision here, that will make it almost impossible for there to be a trial before the general election, which is something that as we point out, the public has a right to. >> it would be fascinating to see if they could get the court to actually engage, get members of the court to engage on the issue of how quickly can you issue an opinion to possibly here, you know, ketanji brown

jackson say something about how quickly it could be issued and then, gorsuch or someone else or alito say well, no, surely, it would take months for us to figure out and it would be fascinating to hear that particular point engaged during an oral argument. >> absolutely because i think it would have the salutary effect of those people who may not be looking at this in good faith, having to actually articulate the reason for delay here, that is in just what they are really trying to do, just trying to avoid a trial. they may decide in flowery language that presidents are not immune from prosecution but at the same time, what they will really be doing is saying, presidents in general are not immune but by delaying this trial in this case, this former president is immune. >> one of the other issues that should be easily clarified in

oral argument? >> there are people who say that there should be some small area where a president may be immune from criminal prosecution, for instance, in conducting foreign relations, that might be an area where it's hard to have normal rules with respect to criminal prosecution and it seems to me that you could have everyone saying, you know what, that may be the case and that may be a debate worth having but this is not the case to do it. because in this case, what is before us, is somebody who is charged with insurrection, and in that situation, you know, everyone should be able to agree, whatever the parameters are of presidential immunity in

a criminal context, it does not encompass this case. so that's a standard way in which courts proceed which is deciding the case before it and they don't need to decide this sort of outer perimeters of that where there might be an argument because this, surely, if there's any case where there's no argument for presidential immunity in a criminal context, it would be somebody who illegally is trying to stay in office and remember, the court has to take the allegations of the indictment as true in deciding this case. >> andrew, i want to squeeze in a commercial break. and when we come back i want to get your reaction to what a federal judge said about donald trump's attack on the family of the trump trial judge in new york. we will be right back with andrew wiseman.

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washington, d.c. federal judge walton said this tonight about donald trump attacking the daughter of judge juan merchan who will be presiding over the first criminal trial of donald trump on april 15th. >> i am concerned because like i say, we have had judges who have lost their lives or family members have lost their lives as a result of individuals who have been litigants in their courtroom. >> andrew wiseman is back with us. judge walton, appointed by

president bush. this is someone who's had a lot of experience with january 6th defendants in washington, d.c. very unusual for a federal judge to do public interviews like this. and he has decided, he wanted to have something to say but donald trump's conduct. >> it is very unusual to have judges speaking out in this way but it's worth noting that judge will walton, extremely respected judge in d.c. is not the only judge who's been speaking out. you have baron howell, royce lambert, all speaking out about the problem of violence, the problem of people spewing lies about the judiciary, and you know, it makes sense that that

is where we are unfortunately, as a country, we lived through a time where the media was constantly attacked because it was a check on the power of donald trump. we lived through, with respect to the department of justice, individual prosecutors who i know very well, for the same reason, because it was a check on his power. and now that he is facing and norma's civil liability and criminal liability with the first of the criminal cases starting on the 15th, this is all to be expected and it's all a sign of where we are as a country. and it's good to see judges in a bipartisan way, speaking up about the rule of law and how central and important it is to our country. >> it's worth noting by the way that donald trump's latest attack on the judges daughter is false, he's attributing a social media post to her that

she didn't make at all. but i do think that people are struggling to understand why the gag order that judge merchan has issued against donald trump does somehow allow for this to happen? >> it'll be interesting to see whether it gets expanded in light of this, and i think it is because the judges are very reticent to apply the gag orders to themselves, out of a sense of duty, out of a sense of mission and purpose to the rule of law that they are there to protect other participants in the process, whether it's jurors, witnesses, court staff, but they tend to look at themselves last in that list

and let me of people. and frankly, you would think that if so, sort of, it's just inconceivable to think that this is something they should have to worry about but that's where we are. so, i will be interested to see whether judge merchan, if this continues and frankly, the edge -- other judges for handling the case, expand these gag orders because of course, you want to make sure that you are stemming the potential violence, you don't want to wait until it has actually happened. >> thanks for joining us tonight. and andrew wiseman will be hosting a special defendant trump hour tomorrow night, at this hour, 10:00 p.m., right here on msnbc. and coming up, a bill in

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sotyktu. okay y'all we got ten orders coming in... big orders! starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant... that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs the chase ink card made it easy. when you go for something big like this, your kids see that. and they believe they can do the same. earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card. make more of what's yours. in 1952, president harry truman decided to begin the process of providing intelligence briefings to presidential nominees and president elect, when creating this process for his van successor, president-elect

general dwight eisenhower who was the commander of u.s. forces in europe during world war ii and had experience with intelligence briefings, there was no way president truman could have imagined that a potential presidential nominee would undermine u.s. national security and attempt to assume the office of commander in chief while facing federal criminal charges for illegal possession of classified information. and because there is no law prohibiting it, you are's intelligence agencies plan to provide briefings to donald trump, soon, despite the criminal charges against him including for violations of the espionage act for possession of classified documents. new legislation in congress is trying to change that. the guarding the united states against reckless exposure act would prohibit any federal official or candidate charged

with certain crimes from having access to classified information. this new legislation would also apply to new jersey senator robert menendez who federal prosecutors have charged with acting as a foreign agent. one of the criminal charges mentioned in the proposed legislation, senator menendez has announced that he would not run for reelection as a democrat this year. the new jersey star-ledger reports new jersey first lady tammy murphy announced sunday she has dropped her bid for u.s. senate, that leaves our next guest as the clear front runner for the democratic nomination for u.s. senate in new jersey. joining us now is the first member of congress to call on senator menendez to resign, congressman andy kim of new jersey, running to replace senator menendez in the senate. thank you for joining us

tonight representative kim. what is your view of this legislation? >> i'm somebody that has had a security clearance for the us government for half my life, i've been working at the pentagon, the state department, white house, national security council, we should have one standard across all of our government, joint should have access to our most sensitive material, especially when it comes to somebody who has acted so recklessly in the past and whether that's former president trump or senator menendez, neither of them should be allowed to be able to participate in this and continue to see classified information given the kind of accusations and charges against them. >> you were already running ahead in the polls, before tammy murphy decided to drop out but you now seem to be

pretty much on your way to the democratic nomination in new jersey. what do you need to do the on that? is it possible that senator menendez could run as an independent? >> one thing i've learned in my three previous races, you don't take anything for granted when it comes to politics and yes, senator menendez has said that he might run as an independent which could complicate matters and so, i'm going to make sure that i'm going out there and earning every single vote, making sure that we are engaging and it's not just about my race, it's about making sure we can lift up democrats all on the ballot, i hope people are excited about what i'm trying to do and if they want to support, they can go to andy kim online. >> new jersey is not a guaranteed blue state in elections like this.

the possibility of a republican senator is not out of the question. >> look, what we've seen before is we had governor chris christie not too long ago, governor murphy won his election by only about three points in his reelection just the other year, so look, again, nothing can be taken for granted especially on the heels of this indictment of the senator which has certainly been something that has you know, given a lot of independent voters concerned about the democratic party in new jersey which is why i've been pushing hard on this platform of restoring integrity back into her politics, fighting against corruption and we've seen how powerful it's been in this primary so far, mrs. that has created not just a campaign but frankly, a movement here in new jersey for a better democracy. so we will continue to push on a that. we have a lawsuit a lawsui

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not every guest brings me gifts, but mike memoli was there, so now i have my poster of the three presidents event across the street at radio city music hall. joining us now is news correspondent mike memoli, who

was at the big event with the three presidents. mike, we are so eager to hear about this, stephen colbert presiding over kind of a panel discussion, three presidents on the panel. how did it begin? >> you have these incredible performances, by the way. all the entertainers listed there really got the crowd going and you're wondering, how are they going to top that? so they introduced the voice of god, these three presidents in your looking at the stage waiting for them to come out. they don't come out from behind the stage. they come up from under the stage. the crowd went wild so it really set the tone for stephen colbert than to begin a conversation you don't see every day. in fact, i can't remember anything like it, three former presidents -- two former presidents, i should say in the sitting president, this unique fraternity of the presidency that only they can speak to. >> was there division, bill clinton, brock obama? >> this event tragic accomplish

a number of things for the biden campaign, first and foremost, bringing in money. but, when you think about president biden's vulnerabilities in this election, you see it on the streets outside of our building right now, the protests over gaza, and in the fact that voters are not feeling what the economic data shows us, and both former presidents tackled each one of those, one of the time. it was a very clear preparation for the fact that there might be disruptions from the audience and there were. there were multiple, and barack obama took the opportunity to not just speak on the substance of what president biden has managed to do and tried to do to bring some clarity to this impossible situation, but then he at one point scolded some of the protesters who tried to interrupt him to say it's good to have moral clarity. >> the protesters were about gaza? >> almost all of them, about gaza. but, he said it's one thing to

have while clarity, but the presidency, he said, as only he could say, is a lonely seat and it's not enough just to have moral clarity. you have to be willing to listen to the other side, to try to tackle all the complications of this issue, and actually get results and that is what president biden, with his decency and tries to do and when he got angry at the protester, the crowd got angry with him. they were also, in their own way, heckling some of the protesters. now, you turn to bill clinton and the economy. stephen colbert asked that question. remember what they called him in 2012? the secretary of explaining stuff in bill clinton, 77 years old, very slowly and methodically describe the problem. he said there had been two shocks to the an economic system in this country and the psychic -- psyche in this country. 2008, donald trump disrupted the progress they were making and he said covid disrupted even more. he said the president cannot do anything about inflation other

than get us into a depression but everything he has done is get us on the right track in the crowd really did eat it up, we have to say and i have to say this is a member of the white house correspondents association. i would love for us to be showing the clips of what they said tonight, to get that message across and share more of that with you. we were not allowed to have video cameras in the room but i expect we will see some of those clips from the campaign. >> at one point, the response to the protesting turned into a standing ovation. >> that's right, when former president obama really did deliver that lecture and it was a lecture. it was stern. it was forceful. the crowd erupted in applause after he finished his remarks so i think this is sort of a cathartic moment for a lot of democrats who are frustrated. yes, they also want to see more prompt progress in gaza but they're also not happy to see people protesting the person who's trying to fix the problem.

>> so, how did they wrap it up? >> they started coming up from below stage. they finished with, and this is classic biden -- stephen colbert put on his aviators. joe biden put on his aviators and sure enough, brock obama, bill clinton put on their aviator glasses, as well. >> by the way, it is the biggest room in the world, is 6000 people, there is nothing like being in that hall. it is always bigger than you remembered it is. >> it is the stage -- i don't think we're going to see another one like this and i think this is something i actually read into julian chavez rodriguez, the biden campaign manager, on the way out. i said how do you top this? >> she said it is all about momentum and this is part of an effort to build momentum into this election fight. >> thank you, mike. that is tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now.